The post:
"Let me tell you right now. I'm not going to convert you.
We both know only you ultimately decide for yourself what you want to believe. If you ever feel a certain way because of what I've said, maybe you should believe God is trying to tell you something. I'm not gonna, for your sake, pretend God doesn't exist. So when I say He does, you shouldn't get upset. But I know you will, and I know the reason. But since you didn't ask...I won't tell.
1) If you don't beleieve in God. Why do you believe in Love?
2) How can good and evil exist, if there is no God? How do we know of a destinction?
3) If you only see with your eyes, can you really tell me, you can love? I know its possible. Yet whenever you choose to ignore God, you lose that ability more and more. And I know thats what you've been going through. Love can't be seen, smelt, or heard. It can only be felt. So does that mean it doesn't exist? People marry because of love. Is it nothing? Its obviously not.
4) Tell me why you hate God. Do you hate all that is good and love? If you don't, then maybe its because you have the wrong idea about Him. After all if its the truth you love to much, why do you choose not to understand?
God exists. Seeing Him, isn't something I need to believe, because He is with me. Thats why I beleive. In any religion, nothing changes by them believing it. When you believe in God, He will be with you. He won't leave us on Earth with comeplete seperation and expect us to believe in Him. That will never happen. He will be with us. He will not force you to beleive. That is why we have a choice. Otherwise its not your free will. Its not a choice.
What do you, as an atheist, have to live for? Absolutley nothing. Theres no purpose or point. Is that true though, No. There is a reason. You can plainly see there is no reason without God. Its like your pretending theres a reason to keep your sanity, but then denying God. Did you think it will be simple to believe in Him. Do you think the Devil will allow you so easly to believe Him? Of course not.
Atheists will say anyway that none of this is true. But that is the very reason why its so hard for them to believe. The devil is trying to stop you. Its so easy to understand, yet I told you it won't be easy to believe in Him. Whatever I say won't make it easier so don't look for my help.
Ask God to help you understand. Is it so hard to hate a God who is love? Who is nothing like anything you've thought or have been led to believe by the Devil.
God is love and He made you and there is a connection, He wouldn't create you without the ability to love Him. Its not impossible to truly understand the truth.
There is absolutly no reason to say God doesn't exist, when He has always been with you. He will never leave you. Have you ever thought as a child about God? And not about what people think He is, but what He truly is.
You know you've been watched over. You might have felt alone but you've always known He was with you. And its probably not the idea you have of Him you've thought of, but it was Him. Don't let anyone tell you who God is. Find Him out for yourself. Not from others. To understand Him is to know Him. So find out for yourself. You may need help, and thats ok, but what I'm saying is, don't let others give you a false idea about God.
Heres a suggestion - Amazingfacts.org or .tv for videos. They can tell you all you want to know. Or any questions you have to ask. My name is Justin."
The response:
"Hi, JustinSkye! I read your message while passing by this site, and you're right about one thing: you're not going to convert anybody with that.
A few questions for you:
1) If you don't believe in Leprechauns, why do you believe in mischief and rainbows?
2) How can light and music exist, if there is no Apollo on his golden chariot?
3) If you only see with your eyes, can you really tell me, can you fear? I know it's possible. Yet whenever you choose to ignore vampires, you lose that ability more and more. Fear can't be seen, smelt, or heard. So does that mean it doesn't exist? People hide under the covers because of fear. Is it nothing? It's obviously not.
4) Tell me why you hate elephant-headed Ganesha, the four-armed Lord of Beginnings. Do you hate His domains of art, science, intellect, and wisdom? If you don't then maybe it's because you have the wrong idea about Him or his associated Muladhara chakra. After all, if it's the truth you love so much, why do you choose not to understand?
Xenu, my Galactic Overlord, exists. Seeing Him isn't something I need to believe, because He is with me. When you believe in Xenu, He will be with you. He will not force you to believe. That is why we have a choice. Otherwise it's not your free will.
What do you, as a non-believer in Thor, have to live for? Absolutely nothing. There's no purpose, no point, no comprehension of the apostrophe in the written lies of the non-believer. You can plainly see there is no reason (and no Jötunn-slaying) without Thor or the Sky-Father, Odin. Deniers of the Hammer-Wielding, Fiery-Haired One will say anyway that none of this is true. But that is the very reason why it's so hard for them to believe. Loki and those Jötunn are trying to stop you.
Ask the Blue Fairy to help you understand. Is it so hard to hate a Fairy who is love? Who is nothing like anything you've thought or have been led to believe by sneaking chupacabra.
Allah is mercy and He made you and there is a connection, He wouldn't create you without the ability to obey Him. It's not impossible to truly understand the truth as revealed by His Messenger, Mohammed.
There is absolutely no reason to say The Invisible Girl doesn't exist, when Susan Storm has always been with you. She will never leave you. Have you ever thought as a child about superheroes? In blue spandex? Have you ever thought as a grown man about Jessica Alba? Of course you have.
You know you've been watched over. You might have felt alone but you've always known the Ghost of Elvis was with you. And it's probably not the idea you have of Elvis you've thought of, but it was the Sideburned One Himself. Don't let anyone tell you who the Ghost of Elvis is. Certainly don't believe The Colonel, or anything Priscilla says. Find Him out for yourself. Thankyouverymuch.
You may need help, and that's OK, but what I'm saying is, don't let others give you a false idea about Yahweh, the Bronze-Age deity Who slaughters children, commands rape and slavery, and hates the shrimp He created.
Here's a suggestion: http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible1.htm or http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/11/16/an-evil-god-table-of-contents/ They can tell you all you want to know.
Good luck on your awakening!"
I can't credit the genius who wrote this, because clicking on his name links me to nothing, but I really want to know this person. :-)
It's comments like that (the xtian one) that drive me further away from god...and I'm already pretty far away. Awesomeness.
ReplyDeleteKriss
Hi Blonde nonbeliever,
ReplyDeleteI just found this blog after I saw your comment. Yes indeed that was a hilarious comeback. Anyway, I'll probably check on this blog from time to time. If you want, you can leave a comment somewhere on my blog any time you have a blog post you want me to read.
its funny how you've yet to come back with a more logic response what's your believes and tell me why you don't believe in God. Also written in the bible when the devil tempts Jesus with the word (which he twisted himself) and God replied by with the book. Yea you read what was said but yet reply the same way. What's the difference between you and satan? Your flesh is so possessed by this world you don't even know what to believe. Don't even bring science into the mix because i will burn you on that topic. So feel free to add me as a friend and we'll discuss more of this with people that know the bible and actually use the word. FYI God is love. read the holy bible it's also written.
DeleteThanks for stopping by!
ReplyDeleteI love that response !
ReplyDeleteI wish I could lie and say it was me. But, I am, after all, an atheist with morals ;-)
I didn't feel like wading through the word salad mire, so I skipped ahead to the witty retort, which seemed like word salad until I went back and read Justin's letter. Alas, I agree, a very appropriate response indeed!
ReplyDeleteYum. Word salad!
ReplyDeletewith tangy dressing!
ReplyDeleteI am so glad I found your blog. Your stuff has been great, and this was awesome. I would have never read this classic pwnage if I hadn't found you. And that picture of the cat is hilarious.
ReplyDeleteThank you kindly, Kent!
ReplyDelete"...peppered with infuriating repitition, misspellings, and is basically word salad..."
ReplyDeleteIrony...it's a bitch!
Holy shit, Dan. Good one. Fixing it now.
ReplyDeleteThere. That's better: "...peppered with infuriating repetition, misspellingss, and is basically word salad."
ReplyDeleteLove is a chemical reaction in your brain. That's essentially what all emotions are, chemical reactions triggered by external or internal stimuli.
ReplyDeletelol. You fixed repetition but ruined misspellings. Good post!
ReplyDeleteOur yew shore?
ReplyDeleteGod does not hate shellfish - he loves them- that is why we are not allowed to eat them.
ReplyDeletebut he hates all the other animals and they should be mercilessly slaughtered by his believers
ReplyDeleteI would love to see Justin's response to this. There just isn't any way to come back from that without committing a thousand fallacies. Of course, Justin doesn't base his arguments on logic, reason, and science, so that's really a fallacy in itself.
ReplyDeleteMy name is Nikki and I am a christian, I guess, I could never take it as far as that psycho did but I do believe in a higher power and all that jazz, but that response was priceless, and perfect. You are hilarious and incredibly accurate! I just wish certain people would think before they rant about religion and God, it's not a very bright idea to piss everyone off. And whoever Anonymous is needs to keep his or her thoughts to themselves, it's just annoying
ReplyDeletethe unfortunate thing is that this probably went over justin's head. there's just no arguing with some people.
ReplyDelete"What do you, as an atheist, have to live for? Absolutley nothing. Theres no purpose or point."
ReplyDeleteObviously, if this person didn't have the prospect of heaven, they would feel that life is meaningless. I (an atheist) on the other hand can be happy day-to-day without feeling like i need to impress an invisible man. This guy sounds like he needs direction in his life, and therefore turns to religion. I feel quite capable of guiding myself. And righteously at that.
I stumbled here! woohoo! Cheers, atheists :)
ReplyDeleteAs one man said, can't remember who, "If you could reason with religious people there would be no religion."
ReplyDeleteResponse two is completely ignorant and poorly related. Modern conceptions of good and evil can't exist without God because such conceptions are based of the teachings of religion. If there was no God and Objectivist philosophy was the dominant force of thought, conceptions of good and evil would be different. Therefore, the current conceptions require a God.
ReplyDeleteTry answering questions from a witty source; this source appears to be a redneck clown. Selectively choosing to answer only bad questions doesn't make you witty, it makes you a wannabe douche. And posting these answers online? As Rand says, the worst second-handers are those that seek power. Why can't you just be atheist and not force your bullshit on everyone, even if religion is just an establishment to promote altruism?
TL;DR?
You're not witty just because you resist the majority.
If you're not a fool, I eagerly await a response. If you are a fool, I'll laugh when you delete this because you can't handle being challenged by people who aren't highly religious and blinded by it.
(This goes out to Aron -- *Adam Amron* wrote this, so no, I did not copy and paste it for you on Facebook)
I love Stumble. :P
ReplyDeleteOh my god. (Poor word choice...) I love this blog! Stumbleupon brought me here and I am sooooo glad they did! You are genius. That cat pic is adorable. And I want to marry whoever wrote that response to that moron.
ReplyDeleteHis response to #3 is definitely my favorite part.
ReplyDelete"If you could reason with religious people there would be no religion."
ReplyDeleteThis quote was said by the character Dr. Greg House on the TV show, House.
To the person who said.. "I would love to see Justin's response to this. There just isn't any way to come back from that without committing a thousand fallacies":
ReplyDeleteI am sure his comment would be "BUT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT DON'T EXIST, AND I'M TALKING ABOUT GOD", as always. :/ seen it too many times before.
Our sense of right and wrong doesn't come from god. It comes from what we would or wouldn't want done to ourselves. I don't want to be killed = Murder is wrong. I don't want to be robbed = Theft is wrong. I want people to help me should I ever need it = Charity is good.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad that I was raised outside of christianity, because it looks pretty silly from an outsider's viewpoint.
Of course modern conceptions of good and evil can exist without god and such conceptions are not fully based on the teachings of religion. In nature quite a few species of animals have adapted to actually go out of their way to help the survival of another animal of their species. This is simply due to the the concept of survival of the fittest, by helping each other they are increasing the likelihood that their species will survive to adulthood, breed and continue on. And that is a possibility of the roots of our emotions, a primal reaction for reproduction. Therefore the current conceptions do not require a god, simply nature and evolution.
ReplyDeleteSecondly.. redneck clow? Don't THEY consist of 90% of the christian community in The United States? They probably weren't the ones who wrote the response. sorry that was a little ignorant ;)
Anyways... you think we are forcing OUR atheist bullshit on everyone?! We are not the ones going door to door begging people to join their religion and throwing pamphlets you. We are also not the ones who force people to join their religion or possibly be killed and/or burn in fiery hell for all of eternity, harsh. I could go on if you'd like. I am not the "fool" who's message you "eagerly await" I am just a stumbler who came across a good ol' fashion religious debate, and who can resist that?!
I do not mind if you are a religious person, but i feel many of them need it as a crutch, almost an excuse or a reason to be kind. As someone said in earlier post, I can live my life and do right because deep down I just know it is good to be righteous. Not because if I don't do the right thing ill be punished.
To the commenter from June 22, 2011 8:12 PM:
ReplyDeleteI agree that in #2, light and music are a bad comparison to good and evil. However, Good and Evil are philosophical ideas only, and you cite Objectivism, a philosophy, which proves my point.
There is Good, and there is Evil. But the person who brought it up is implying that there must be a line between them, and nothing else. This is impossible. If you accept good and evil as points on a spectrum (as all things are), you see the world for what it is. Nothing is black and white. Does that seem unlikely to you?
Also, your use of the term "redneck clown" (for the religious person above) is more derogatory than anything said on this page. Shame on you.
In close second, the term "wannabe douche" (for the atheist responding); for this empty attack on someone simply for arguing on the internet (which is what you and I are doing), shame on you.
I love it when things like this happen.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that makes me laugh is that Christians claim that only they can feel their God inside them when they beleive in him (it is directly said in the quote). This is such bull cause obviously islamic fundamentalists feel the presence of something because it drives them to blow themselves to peices.
ReplyDeleteI love you all so much.
ReplyDelete@ Mac An Atheist with morals? Does such a thing exist? I thought we were all deviant scum destined for hell. LOL
ReplyDeleteThat. Was. Sheer. Unadulterated. Genius!
ReplyDeleteMy hat is off to the response given in the post.
I find myself driven ever further from any return to belief in sky faeries by the very ones who claim to speak for them.
Somebody please tell me: what was there before God ?
ReplyDelete*head tilt*
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uuqXXT7VYo
ReplyDeleteHi Mom!
ReplyDeleteEveryone here that is an atheist. If there is one thing that i have learned in my life it is this. Arguing is pointless because both sides use different bases of belief. While atheists, such as myself, derive our beliefs from facts and logic religious people take theirs from faith. It is because of this that the argument will always continue and never be resolved. Because we can not find a basis upon witch to both stand. Logic needs a solid physical proof while faith requires a strong belief in that which can not be seen. This means that each side thinks down upon the other. The only possible solution is to live and let live. TO argue with each other is to spin around in circles for hours and hours pointlessly. It is because of this that i say atheists be the bigger "man" (or woman) and stay out of it. If you are arguing with someone about religion than neither of you are willing to change positions so it is meaningless. I know that it is hard to just ignore what you believe to be wrong but it is the only solution.
ReplyDeleteOMG LOVE THE PUGS! PUGS ARE GODS!
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree with Anon from 1:43 AM that the religious mind and the atheist mind have different foundations for their beliefs, I disagree that there is no point to argue. I would bet a great deal of us atheists here were people raised in religion. I know I for one was a true believer, very committed to my Christian faith.
ReplyDeleteWhile it was not one single argument that de-converted me, it was reading a collection of intelligent thoughts along with my own personal experience of religion that led me from it.
While each little argument probably has minimal impact, sound, logical arguments often (to steal a phrase from my Christian upbringing) 'plant a seed' of reason that can grow over time. Not everyone who is adamantly religious will remain so, if given the stepping stones out.
I do not get the "Without God there's no purpose or point".
ReplyDeleteWhat do they expect to do when they get to heaven (or whatever they call it)? Is there another level, life becomes pointless/meaningless/purposeless?
Anyway, whilst they live a purposeful life, I will be actually enjoying my purposeless one.
Justin is not a very good human. He supports a religion that hinders the development of our species.... what a dick. Atheist unite. Don't ever let some ass hole tell you what to believe. Just remember, the church didn't recognize that the earth wasn't the center of the solar system until the 1960's! They clearly have some catching up to do. It's called science bitch, learn about it.
ReplyDeleteNot that I'm agreeing with the person at the top who the thing was a response to in the first place, but I just don't see why if atheists think Christianity is so stupid and wrong, why they keep talking about it so much. They don't go around trying to disprove Muslims or Jewish people. I just never got that.
ReplyDeleteIf I lived in Pakistan as an atheist, you can bet I'd probably have a witty response to a fundamentalist Muslim post, instead. I do see your point. I just think it has to do with geography. America is a "Christian Nation," remember? ;-) The vast majority of readers of this blog, according to the stats, are American, so it's what we see every day. I don't know, what do you think?
ReplyDeleteWhy do they keep talking about christianity? I didn't pass any muslim billboards on my way home today. Nobody says "Allah bless you" when I sneeze. Jews didn't use to wait for me to get home ever day with pamphlets and bibles. Nobody has ever criticized me for "selfishly" not raising my daughter to be buddist. But gee, I don't know either.
ReplyDeleteTo June 23, 2011 7:14 PM:
ReplyDelete"but I just don't see why if atheists think Christianity is so stupid and wrong, why they keep talking about it so much. They don't go around trying to disprove Muslims or Jewish people."
Probably the same reasons Christians in the U.S. take issue with atheism above all else. They don't argue with Muslims or Jews any more than atheists do.
Ok but what I really mean is going out of your way to try to prove Christians wrong. Maybe I just don't know the right people, but I have never met a Christian in real life who is like this person. And yes, they're annoying, but if you really think they're ignorant, then why keep going on about it?
ReplyDeleteI am a complete atheist, and I thoroughly enjoy this blog. I am going out on a big limb here to say this, but I feel like it is becoming more true every day.
ReplyDeleteI know a lot of people that are religious. People I love more than anything in this world. Although I am not religious, and do not share their beliefs, I do give them the respect they deserve, simply because they are good people.
I feel strongly, that this argument of religion vs. atheism is something that tears down people on both sides of the coin. I have lived a life filled with amazing people, that have done amazing things, and believe in god. I love them all, and they love me as well. They disagree with my beliefs, and I disagree with theirs, but we still love each other as family and friends.
I think the best thing we can all do is live, and let live. Respect, without expecting respect in return. It shows character, it shows intelligence. The atheist arguments of today are taking a turn into intolerance (and I obviously know why. I am not so keen on seeing religious government decisions.)
All I am saying, is I understand the anger, and the misunderstandings between groups of people who think differently. But seeing that both groups, atheists and religious, will ALWAYS be around, no matter what. Why not JUST TRY to accept and understand that there are good and bad in both groups. Focus on the good.
FOCUS ON THE GOOD.
^ This. I can die happy now, thank you Anon. Even though I can be snarky, I hope I convey tolerance and understanding. Live and let live. I say it over and over again. Love it!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment Blonde Nonbeliever. I absolutely like this blog even more now. :)
ReplyDelete(I was the previous anon.)
Welcome, Mark. Come into the light. I appreciated your thoughtful response. We should be aware of our behavior and own it, and our words, and try to be loving in the face of confusion and cognitive dissonance and judgment. Christlike, so to speak.
ReplyDeleteThat response was one of the best things I have ever read!
ReplyDeleteRock on amazing responder!
b-chick
In computer terms, religion isn't responsible for the installation of morality software in people. Its good old guilt, which comes with your hardware (unless you're born without, which means you need help in this world).
ReplyDeleteI like you guys. And gals. Continue to help me grow as a person. And those rare booty jerky make me jut my lower lip out persons...I love you, too.
ReplyDelete'While atheists, such as myself, derive our beliefs from facts and logic religious people take theirs from faith'
ReplyDeleteThat is an interesting comment. If atheism was based on facts then I am assuming you can prove there is no God using scientific evidence?
The simple fact of the matter is that atheism is based on faith just as much as christianity.
That is why the arguments will continue long after our generation.
It is not possible to argue for either side as it is not possible to prove or disprove God or no God.
I loved the response and here are few of my favorite quotes to prove the point that human morale absolutely can and does exist without any types of religion.
ReplyDelete"There will always be good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Steven Weinberg, Nobel prize-winning physicist
"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That’s my religion." - Abraham Lincoln
That is ...I like it :)And I can't understand how the f@&^#*&@^k is possible someone to believe in some crap in the age of LHC , quantum mechanics, string theory etc.
ReplyDeleteDear Christian apologists: the onus of proof for the existence of any god rests entirely upon the believer. For those of you interested in this argument kindly look up Russell's Tea Pot at Wikipedia.
ReplyDelete^^^^ Anon, ^^^^
ReplyDeleteDo you even know what science is when you say "scientific evidence?"
In science, at the beginning of any scientific inquiry, there are at least two hypotheses: the NULL hypothesis(in this case, atheism) and the ALTERNATIVE hypothesis(theism or deism).
In order to accept the alternative hypothesis one must demonstrate sufficient evidence that there is such a(n) thing/effect that is being posited. If this cannot be done (which it has not in the case of any God hypothesis ever), the null hypothesis is retained by default, TENTATIVELY and open to further testing and retesting. It is not dogmatic (like religion) or characterized by staunch/blind faith (like religion) but open to constant revision, allowing for further scientific progress.
Shorter/Sweeter version: If you cannot provide evidence of God, then assuming his existence (theism) is NOT scientific, while retaining the null (atheism) IS COMPLETELY SCIENTIFIC.
Therefore, atheism is completely scientific in its tentative retention of the null hypothesis in the case of the existence of God. And is therefore not based on faith "just as much as christianity." (sic) It takes a great deal more faith to assert something that has not been scientifically verified than it does to say such a thing has not been demonstrated and therefore should not be assumed.
Atheist LACK faith in the unsubstantiated positive assertion that there is a God, that's why they are "atheists," or "without God(s)," NOT "one who has FAITH in the positive assertion that NO God(s) exist(s)."
So, it appears that you don't know what science and/or faith even is/are, let alone how they apply to the theism - atheism debate.
"You're a superstar." - Bob Kelso
I believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster touches us daily with His Noodley Appendages, that he encourages us to feast upon His Noodley Goodness and His Meaty Balls, that He has promised us a beer volcano and a stripper factory in Pastafarian heaven, and other blessings too numerous to know. I am sad for those who know not the wonders of His Noodliness and, to those who can experience the great comfort of His Sauce, I say "R'Amen."
ReplyDeleteI have only 2 problems with what you said: a) As a grown man, of course I've thought of Jessica Alba and b) Thor is real!
ReplyDeleteFor the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I beg and plead with you to at least try and keep in mind that not all Christians are so grossly out of touch with reality.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, man...what a cluster. I lol'd.
so many things to be said. christianity and religin do need to be debated and torn down because they are evil, awful things. i could elaborate, but instead i'll just disprove omnipotence in 2 sentences.
ReplyDelete1. god can't build a wall god can't climb over.
2. if everything came from god, and god is pure good and love, then how do evil and the devil even exist?
Love it. As a non-American type person, observing via blogs like this and the media, it would seem that the general American Christian appears to hate everyone NOT of their faith. Be they followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Thor or their version a God. They have so much in common with Islamic Fundamentalists and that I find scary.
ReplyDeleteI think this is the first full thread that I have ever taken the time to read on the internet, and most probably the first time I have ever commented on anything.
ReplyDeleteI have thoroughly enjoyed reading all the complex and highly intellectual responses by some very obviously gifted minds.
I cannot claim that I have ever read the bible, have studied compelling scientific theories, nor could I ever try to even sound intelligent. However, when reading such amazing debate points I often like to ask the most simple questions to believers just out of pure interest.
For instance, since Adam was made out of sand and Eve was made with a rib from Adam (Or so I believe this is how the story goes?), Do they have belly buttons? If we are all made in the likeness of God, how come we have women and we all look different? If we are all God's children, how come he never gives me a birthday present or come home for a Christmas dinner? If my real Dad didn't come visit me for 2011 years then I would definitely think he didn't love me. How can I believe that God loves me? He can create a whole universe and Earth in 7 days (Obviously exceptionally efficient and fantastic with time management) but he can't even pop over for a cup of tea to say hi once a year? Pretty darn slack if you ask me.
Anywho, just my random thoughts. Hope you have a fantastic day. Mike from New Zealand
The sad fact that I believe to be true is if we met the people that wrote the bible 2000 years ago - we probably would denounce them for being prejudice, racist, sexist and pretty uneducated... yet we still allow their writing to play such an important part of our lives.
ReplyDeleteDon't agree with you at all. I'm a Christian. But even I have to admit that first person is stupid. It's people like him that make the rest of us look like idiots. But don't forget that there are quite a lot of intelligent Christians out there that do present intelligent arguments using science. Some of the worlds leading scientists are creationists. So if you look around you will find some intelligence in most Christians.
ReplyDeleteAnd I really would love to argue all your points, but I can't really be bothered. If you do want to though, feel free to email me. (My email should be on my profile)
ReplyDeleteThank you those who have repeated the very true comment that it is impossible to argue between the religious and non due to their different bases of evidence, ie. faith vs. science.
ReplyDeleteMy only concern is that in this debate, we so staunchly assume that our singular way of knowing is the only possible way to find truth. It's not. You learn some things through the scientific method (like science) whereas you (or I at least) can only understand certain things symbolically or artistically. For example, science hasn't taught me tolerance and equality to nearly the same depth or with the same level of efficiency as the single image in Harry Potter of the muggles forming a throne for wizards to sit upon with the proclamation "magic is might".
A challenge, use the scientific method to explain the color brown to a blind person. The point being some things you understand on a different level and through a different means than faith or science, so don't be so quick to discredit either.
Something I learned in Algebra II, there are often (even when you are provided the equation to solve for a very limited question)multiple solutions for x, and many more ways to find it.
Praise the flying spaghetti monster,
but atheists and christians, don't fall into eachothers purported follies by refusing to admit things undreamt of in your own philosophies.
Hello people!
ReplyDeleteGreat blog and thank you so much to StumbleUpon for permiting me to land on this page!
Atheist here! Yey!
Well, some points:
-> LOVE the pugs Blonde Nonbeliever, thank you, they are sooo funny :P
-> The first cat pic is also very sweet.
-> To Anon from coment on june 23, 2011 1:43: Might be a pointless discussion, but it is a REALLY funny one, I read it all and it was pretty cool ;)
-> The most stupid thing about religious people is the fact that they deny all other religions, including ALL the ones that came before theirs...
-> And will be reading the blog from now on!
Kisses to all **
(Oh and I'm from Portugal, the crapy country that just went asking help to FMI, and I agree that we mostly debate the atheism with the religion that is most common on our country.)
P.S.: Don't think that I don't like my country, I do. The crapy part about it is the politicians!)
@ Dominic Thomas, there are simply a thousand places I could go here. I would like nothing more than to partake in a good debate going back and forth via email. But in the end you and I both know that's not what you're seeking, you're seeking a little forum to make some points which usually results in nothing further than a little futile exercise for the both of us. No one wins. Let's just say for now, I speak from a lot of experience.
ReplyDeleteLet me explain, I used to be an associate pastor of one of the largest evangelical non-denominational churches in southern California. My weekly bible studies alone drew between 2 to 3 thousand (I'm sure long before you were even born). If you want biblical apologetics, I was your guy. I ate non-believers for breakfast. (If you believe me to be bragging here, I'm not, I've not even listed a tenth of my credentials.)
Today, I'm a fully-fledged atheist. You are asking perhaps on how did I come to give up the "faith"... it all began when I came across a long series of a well-researched series of articles, they were in perhaps 12 parts, in a well-known publication for those on the "inside" working in the ministry and/or church biblical studies. To this day, I can quite vividly recall those articles because they literally haunted me. Written by several well-known and respected biblical scholars and done from a very in-depth perspective on the various editing and "touch-ups" to the bible in both the old and new testaments. Believe me that I have hunted for them but they were long written before the internet even existed and no one today seems to be willing to post these. (You can understand ... why give the enemy anymore ammunition.)
That series of articles was just the beginning on my long journey and road about what I believed and where I began questioning if the "infallible word of God". I asked myself some very hard and poignant questions and began doing a lot of self-examination. This un-spiritual awakening took several years, many questions and some real heartache. (ie: my wife like being a "pastor's wife" more than being the love of my life ... three months after divorcing me she married another up-and-coming pastor – C'est la vie.)
[part 2]
ReplyDeleteDominic, I fully agree that this little "Christian defender" here was a dweeb. His arguments and defence were silly at best. Nevertheless, you know yourself that for most Christians he's not the exception to the rule - he IS the rule. Given the chance, most Christians couldn't make an intelligent argument to defend their beliefs to save their lives. Over the years, I've met boatloads of them. A majority attend bible studies 2 to 3 times a week, have a bible a noted and highlighted and still cannot get past "Jesus loves you and praise the Lord" forget even bothering to ask them to recite the four spiritual laws or go any deeper.
Having a sense of belonging and being a part of a click is a wonderful human attribute and there's nothing like the experience of being with like-minded people all feeling good and singing wonderful spiritual up-lifting songs and it's fun ... but get any deeper than that and that's where the trouble begins. Take it from someone that has spent far too many hours doing "spiritual counselling." The main problem I found in the end is that if the average believer/Christian were to do some real deep spiritual digging and ask themselves some hard questions - they may not like the answers. My conclusion is not that atheists are so threatening with well thought out arguments and answers ... it's just that they most of the time they are people that have asked themselves the hard questions and now make too much sense.
Like myself, faced with those same hard questions they like so many pastoral colleagues make conscience choices to ignore the facts. I judge none of them for choosing to do so. Because after all, at the end of the day, religion is good-money and as in my case, it was really good money, it's a really great way of making a living; no matter what one believes about being "called".
Personally, I just couldn't live with myself and looking back, I know that I am better a person for making the correct decision. I like so many fellow atheists have very high morals, committed partners and we're great parents that refuse to fill our children's heads with nonsense. I love my life, today I live in Europe, have a business, a partner of 20+ years and have something I never knew fully existed. I like to call it "a peace that passes all understanding."
Thanks for the forum, Blonde. Anon yesterday made a great observation about our "hardware" and "morality software". It's ironic in that describing the human, he/she uses terms which would normally presuppose a designer. Anyone wanting a deeper insight into the science of this question, I suggest "Signature in the Cell" by Meyer (a thoughtful Christian). I especially love the discussion on what different information types there are and how they come about. Readers will also get some good background on the (relatively) recent discovery of DNA.
ReplyDeleteBrilliant. That's all that's needed to be said about that.
ReplyDeleteI have learned a lot revisiting this string of posts and reading them with more time than I had before. Thank you all for your obvious thoughtfulness and effort you have put into sharing your ideas. The vast majority of you have been very respectful. Nice work!
ReplyDeleteThis is the first time that I've read all the comments to a blog. Fascinating. The retorts to Justin's inane diatribe were spot on! It never ceases to amaze me how those 'religious folk' 'seem to feel that the have all the answers and they begin and end with god. Even tho they all think that their god is the one and true god. I questioned the existence of this deity when I was a young child and was punished for my inquiring mind. Now I question everyone and their motives, especially politicians. :-)
ReplyDeleteI found the funniest part the way Justin continually wrote "his" and "him" in capitals. The response even mimics this simple grammar mistake.
ReplyDeleteHell yeah for stumble! Do I believe in God? Heavens no! (you see what i did there?) In this day in age anyone who tries to argue that any god/divine being is our loving master is a fool. "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" – Epicurus. And that's some old shit. There will always be good men doing good things and evil men doing evil things. But for good men to do evil things, that takes religion.
ReplyDelete"Response two is completely ignorant and poorly related. Modern conceptions of good and evil can't exist without God because such conceptions are based of the teachings of religion. If there was no God and Objectivist philosophy was the dominant force of thought, conceptions of good and evil would be different. Therefore, the current conceptions require a God."
ReplyDeletethis guy really didn't think this out at all did he?
does he realize that there are religions that it is okay to force labor on women, rape people, molest children, and more?
are these not modern assumptions of evil, that some modern religions portray as being okay?
there are so many religions that what may be good, may be a horrible thing in another religion. a christian sees it as a terrible thing to have sex before you are married, but in many religions they are open to conceiving a child as soon as the woman has her first period
with all of these religions saying this is right and that is wrong, of corse you could say that all religions cause our conception of right and wrong. but then you have to look at it from a bigger point of view. lets say you, being a christian, think molesting children is wrong, but hey, aren't priests known for doing these things? islamics think that god may call upon you to blow yourself up for your people(suicide bombers), while suicide in a christian faith is greatly frowned upon, and still are in many modern day cultures. if your religion doesn't think these things are wrong, than whos religion decided it was? because we all know it is. knowing it is, and thinking that all morals of good and evil come from religion, you must believe in other religions, otherwise you would be okay with child molestation too
if you think that your god is the only god, than these other religions couldn't have made up the morals that we see today. yet, no where in christian religion does it say it's wrong to rape children. it doesn't say it's wrong to smoke pot, but many people in our culture still think these things are wrong? tell me why...
it's becuase we make up morals on our own.
if you are a christian than you must think that someone made up the islamic faith. so thinking that someone created the islamic faith, which has many different morals than christian faith, than the man who made it must have used his own morals to support the religion. therefore, not all morals come from religion, not even close
Loved this post, one of the only posts that I have read all through. Came here through stumbled upon and will follow from now on. I would just like to point out that we are all doomed to Hell anyway, my reasoning behind this is as follows.
ReplyDelete1. If you do not believe then you will go to Hell.
2. In most religions this is the punishment for non-believers.
3. As most people will only believe in one religion, then by not believing in an alternative religion (for which the penalty is being doomed to Hell) then you are doomed to Hell.
Ipso Faco, if you do not believe in all religions, then you are doomed to Hell.
See you all there....
LISTEN UP: There is NO god. Never was. Religions are man-made mythologies, first they were meant to make sense of the unknown, but as the population of the world got bigger (and especially when christianity was invented) religion was turned into a method of controlling peoples minds and bodies. Also - think of the billions of people just in the last 2000 years who have died in the name of some stupid dogma or other. No god, ok? Get it through your head!
ReplyDeletenot impressed ... guess what though, I am a Christian. looking at the comments that made it through, I don't think this one will.
ReplyDeleteA Christian believes in God, but they don't believe in Allah. Same as how there are other very religious people in the world who do not believe in a higher power with the name of God.
ReplyDeleteChristians and I have a lot in common. I just believe in one less higher power then they do.
Not all religious people discredit all other religions n there is a difference between religious n spiritual, I have called my self a non-denom christian for the last 2 years n have struggled back n forth with the rules n the people. Let me explain Justin's comment on with out a god there is no purpose, or meaning. Although that is not true, what he is trying to say is that with out something to look forward to after this life whats the point? I personally feel that way, if when i die all i do is rot in the ground & if i truly believed that there is absolutely nothing that would stop me from killing myself as so it's been my life long dream. Therefore I could never be an atheist. being in the middle as a spiritual person no longer religious & or an atheist. I say I can not stand anyone who believes or acts as if they are 100% right religious or atheist...never underestimate the impossible & thats exactly what you do when your 100% on any side of any argument, you enviably set your self up to be wrong in parts, n some can not accept being wrong, just making you ignorant bull headed n the most wrong of anyone.
ReplyDeleteNote to Anonymous above who doubts their comment will be posted just because they are unimpressed and a Christian, I have only *not* published one, single comment on the entirety of this blog so far, and it was a very disgusting joke about child abuse and the clergy. I am not a comment nazi, but that one brought nothing useful to the post and was possibly very harmful for anyone here who may be a victim of abuse. I welcome all views here if they are not plain rude. Please don't underestimate me, I'm secure enough in my own views to share yours. :-)
ReplyDeleteSo I thoroughly enjoyed reading Blonde Nonbeliever's post and since stumble brought me here i cant take credit for like looking this up or anything. Whoever said atheism is based on faith isn't necessarily right because we are based on fact, if you can prove to me there is a god then that is a fact and i will believe it. You cant argue facts that's like saying you're not a thief you just steal things....so prove it to me, give me evidence and i will get my a$$ to church every Sunday for the rest of my life. Until then I enjoy being an atheist and will continue on my sacrilegious and devil worshiping ways. That kills me that apparently the devil puts all these thoughts in our minds...lolz good joke. And the whole atheists only hate Christians is not sound it is not because we hate them its because of people who write crap like this that attack our beliefs. We are content (for the majority) to let everyone believe what they want why do only Christians seem hell bent on converting everyone? You leave me alone I leave you alone end of discussion.
ReplyDeleteas an agnostic, both of these sides seem extreme for useless reasons. christians do tend to flock and push against atheists, and since they are easily outnumbered and outmanned, its easy to see how atheists have suffered so much. I mean it's almost as bad, if not worse, than the black slaves that were treated as being literally work animals who were whipped, worked to death, or just outright killed, am I right? You all have so much that you deserve back from these christian pigs that have done you so many wrongs. But still, I give atheists this much credit in that they return the blows that they are given with logical rhetoric, which is better than burning christians at the stake, like I'm sure most of the more extreme atheists would like to... As for the christians, at least you guys are following your belief system in that you ARE supposed to TRY to convert people for the better, although I do disagree with your more extreme methods. To tell people your stories, moral codes, risk/reward system is one thing, but to throw it at people to make what they do seem lesser IS wrong. And just because you may not word your dislike directly doesn't mean what you say to atheist/non-believers isn't bad, because to depress any person with such things and to make them feel like their lives are lowly is morally unacceptable, in my book at least... But something for both sides to consider, just accept that you both exist and move along, especially you atheists, because if you know better, you should realize you are wasting your time because a christian's goal is to TRY to convert others as well. Tisk tisk atheists, tisk tisk
ReplyDeleteas i was reading this, so many millions of responses popped into my head...but then i realized how much better its been said by famous people over history...
ReplyDeletewww.irreligion.org/2007/09/14/delightful-quotes/comment-page-1
thank stumbleupon every day for keeping us sharp :)
Wow. After reading all of these comments I am not even going to bother with grammar or sophisticated diction for my literacy is of no comparison. Some of these comments I have loved and some I have hated but it does not matter. Yes, I am a Christian, but I hate the term. I hate the insinuations, the judgment, and the history that comes with the word "Christian". First off, I would like to once again point out that in no way does Justin represent "Christians". He represents Justin. The few "Christians" who push their beliefs in such a way cast great shadows upon our society, making it easy to overlook the ones who are tolerant and logical. It has already been said but I could not help myself in reiterating the importance of keeping an open mind. In this day and age I truly believe there is nothing more important. The argument of science and faith will inevitably be around for a long time, but the day when people may argue their beliefs without anger or arrogance is a good day. As an individual (not that it matters), I do not believe in Heaven or Hell, for there should be no other motivation to do good and love other than to do good and love. For me being Christian is to love. I make no inferences of God nor base my faith off of supernatural deeds of ancient saints. Science in undoubtedly correct, but call me crazy I just gota funny feeling!!; that somehow in some freaky way (i have no idea(and i don't think anyone ever will)) God and science are in sync with one another. Like a paradox; the unexplainable explainable. I was just dying to contribute something so whether this is posted or not it was still somewhat fulfilling to type a few thoughts down. So yeah, open mind and love, whether chemical or divine are beautiful things. LIARS GO TO HELL!!!! hahaha totally just kidding of course, so sorry I couldn't help myself.
ReplyDeleteWell stumble upon has done it again. It seems to me that everything to be said has been said. The points I would have liked to have made have already come and gone, which is certainly a good thing. So all I have come to do is add my support to the close cousin's of my belief system the atheists! Your arguements have been clear, concise, and put forward without resorting to name calling. So good for all of you!
ReplyDeleteYour friend, the universal fence sitter
Agnosticism.
"There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"
Richard Dawkins
I would really like to hear an answer to the question posed in one of the comments above, what do christians believe they're going to do in heaven? just sit and bask in bliss for eternity? i never understood that and i am just genuinely curious. maybe there is the idea that the concept of time wont exist or will have changed or something, but that isnt really reassuring. i have often wondered if those that believe in heaven and hell actually think about what it is besides some magical place they see their loved ones again or some fiery cave full of screaming sinners.. please tell, id love to hear an answer
ReplyDeleteMock away, I myself have no opinion on the matter, but who gave you the right to attack a fairly passive attempt to reach out to people and, from the perspective of Justin, improve their lives? You flaunt your atheism and wear it as a badge of honor just as worshipers do with their faiths, you just BELIEVE that there isn't a god, whereas these "rednecks" BELIEVE that there is.
ReplyDeleteIf you would say all of this to Justin's face, then do. I would commend you for being an asshole all the same.
I found this really amusing, thanks! ^_^
ReplyDelete"misspellingss"???
ReplyDeleteYess.
ReplyDeleteThis is a reply to what the previous Anon member posted. What is attacked isn't so much the belief Justin has. But more the way in which he tried to pass off said belief. Sure in his mind he may have been doing it with the best of intentions. But you know the old saying about good intentions right?
ReplyDeleteStrictly speaking his argument towards those with a lack of faith was rude and condescending. It was basically saying that because you do not believe you are a lesser person for it. But I am not trying to attack you so that makes everything all right. If that is a message you would like to try and defend then go for it. But if a person is going to openly call me a lesser person than he is, and do it in such a poor manner. Then you best be certain it gives me the right to mock him for how pathetic an attempt it is.
So to sum it up he gave me the right to and as you put it attack him. He gave me the right when he tried to "improve" my life when I didn't even ask him to. Then while doing so proceed to (albeit poorly) verbally spit in my face in the process. If you don't see the condemnation in that article I suggest you reread it and really look at the underlying meaning behind it. Because it is full of "you are not as good as me" speech. The likes of which wouldn't even have any real grounds in a civilized debate.
An atheist with morals. Wow!!! Let believers and non-believers live side by side without encroaching on each other's throats. My conviction is that there is an appointed time when it shall finally be proven beyond a doubt whether there is or there is not a God that ever existed with mankind. If it is beneficial or not to admit or deny God's existence, that too, shall be proven and there is nothing more that anybody can do to alter the result.
ReplyDeleteAwesomeness.
ReplyDeleteHates the shrimp he created. I lost it.
ReplyDeleteDescartes could do those worried about good, evil and God some good. I would say it's a bit silly to base an argument on the writings of a 17th century French philosopher, but then I remember the Bible.
ReplyDeletePhilosophy and religion will always intertwine, and delightfully so. It's all simple theory and mindfucking. Enjoy it.
Im not even sure how anyone could defend this jusinskye person just so many things that point to mental illness in that one. But the response was muy bueno :)
ReplyDeletePoor Justin surely was left befuddled by your response, asking himself, "Why did she bring up all those phony gods when I wanted to talk about the real one?"
ReplyDeleteLast time people got together and talked like this, "god" rained burning sulfur on them. Any of you dead yet?
ReplyDeleteholy fuck this is brilliant. god believers go way over the top sometimes, saying things that just push others to their breaking point. people like that are the exact reason i dont belive in god. the response was brilliant. i wish i could say i wrote that but whoever did deserves a fucking round of applause.
ReplyDeleteI've got a feeling none of us truly know the "truth". It may be nothing, it may be something. However, until something can be proven, I'm ok with, "I just don't know" and I'll treat people kindly and live a happy life.
ReplyDeleteI know that my first statement is going to (in many cases) automatically get me shut down by many commenting persons on this blog: I am a Christian.
ReplyDeleteHere goes nothing.
I grew up in a "Christian" home and attended a Christian university where I learned what true faith is. HOWEVER, (don't dismiss me yet) I NEED reason and understanding in order to agree/believe (yeah, some of us know how to spell that word).
I do NOT think that religion (whether mine or someone else's) should regulate governmental decisions.
I do NOT think everyone should think and believe and live like me.
I do NOT presume to know all the answers.
I will NOT argue with anyone.
I HAVE seen Islamic billboards.
I have many friends who are agnostic, atheists, Islamic, Jewish, and so forth. We don't sit around trying to prove our points to the rest of the group. We just hang out and enjoy each other.
I AM a science teacher.
I LOVE learning and knowing and figuring it out.
I want to repeat that I do NOT have all the answers.
I don't believe without proof ... whether it's global warming, God, or a murder trial.
I don't want to "win" you to my point of view and use it as a tally mark for a better mansion in heaven.
I just want to live my life the way I think it right and spend time with others who also want that - whether our beliefs line up or not.
Not all Christians are ignorant, arrogant, and useless.
And to close, know that I am hated by many in the Christian community just as (or more than) you atheists are. *shoulder shrug* It's because I'm gay AND a Christian.
Good luck in your debates and continued pursuits with Christians. I hope you all meet someone who just cares about you and not about "conversion." :)
I do have a problem with religious people, ignorance and stupidity. Their intellectual redundancy is a permanent abcess on human evolution and I truely wish they would hurry themselves to a tall cliff somewhere and leap into the arms of their waiting gods. I've met some quite pleasant religious folk, smiling, friendly, but their inability to use reason makes them socially stagnant and mentally intolerant. Should we really be accommodating this any longer? I use every opportunity I get to throw salt onto their festering mental darkness. You should too.
ReplyDeleteThat was hilarious and to all those still ranting on about religion. I'm a Jedi. See you in hell ;)
ReplyDeleteMay the Force be with you.
Wow, I think that was the most awesome reply I have ever read! Sweet! Really wish I could claim it lol.
ReplyDeleteI've read through virtually all the comments. This is quite a fantastic blog! Blonde, you have my respects.
ReplyDeleteAgnostic Anon
That's actually a kind of bland response. I think that only somebody who was already indoctrinated with the ideology of fundamentalist materialism would find it humorous.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, it's true, in a sense. From a materialist perspective, none of the things that the x-tian points out need a spiritual basis, because they have material explanations.
But, it is kind of a needlessly condescending response to a rather respectful seeming x-tian.
And, of course, the x-tian does have a point as well.
GEEEEENIUS :D
ReplyDeleteThank you StumbleUpon!
Well I read most of the comments and yes, Justin is a bit redundant. Sadly he comes across ignorant because he is unable to explain why he believes what he believes.
ReplyDeleteI would like to point out that about 80% percent of the Atheist responses are equally ignorant. It is a very trendy thing nowadays to claim atheism, renounce all religion, insist that you are unique, free thinking, and scientifically superior to religious folk. In repeating the standard atheist doctrine " no one will tell me what to think,your faith is pointless, Science is superior......you are merely conforming to the beliefs of others. Yes Science has a stronger foundation of proof and should be taught to all regardless of religion, belief, or indoctrination, it is our past, present, and future. But unless you can explain " String theorie, quantum mechanics, or show me The Higgs Boson, and explain how this disproves God don't use it as an argument. I belittles the efforts of those scientists who rather than refusing to believing that something does not exist because their science has not proved it, seek out new sciences to find the truth.
If Justin lives his life believing that he will go to heaven because he follows the word of God , he will care for his friends,his family, he will live by a moral code that helps him sleep at night knowing he has no regrets. He will devote his spare time to something he believes in and enjoys, and he will die knowing that he lived his life the way he wanted to without regrets or fear. If after all that there's no heaven well, Justin had a good life and he will disappear happily into oblivion. But if there is a heaven how will you feel when you realize you spent your life laughing at those who found peace. How much time have you spent arguing with the devout only to part ways with nothing changed, he will still believe and you will not, why waste time arguing about it.
I'm not telling you to believe or disbelieve, I'm just saying don't be an atheist for the sake of being an atheist until you've read the Bible, Koran, Torah, until you've studied Hinduism ,and Buddhism, and read about all the pagan gods until you've explored all the avenues of faith you are basing an opinion on information that was spoon fed to you since childhood. For the record men build churches, God builds lives, to use an example from one of the comments above the bible does not say that the earth is the center of the universe, the Roman catholic church is not prescribed by the bible, the Koran does not say kill Americans, the Torah doesn't say love wealth. There are a million stereotypes and it's easy to blame it on the religion, but much of those things are politics and culture. The bottom line is all men need to believe in something, but no two men will ever believe in ALL the same things.
Next time you go to work think about how you wake up every morning and go to a place, where you perform prescribed motions in the belief that you will be presented with a piece of paper. That will lead you to more pieces of paper that will help you live your life in a matter you choose, and think about how that piece of paper is nothing more than a bit of processed plant matter that represent a promise of something you where told exists. You've never seen the gold at the treasury and probably never will but you believe it's there. Therefore you lead your life in faith that the next time you reach into your pocket and pull out a green piece of paper it will be worth something and you will continue to lead the life you want. Everyone believes in something, whether it gets you through a pay period or a lifetime you can't understand someone else entirely so why judge.
I went to Amazingfacts.org, and I tried submitting a really sarcastic comment to see if they could tell. Apparently comments on that site need approval before they post them. It makes sense that they have to censor comments or some truth might actually leak into the website.
ReplyDeleteAtheist are Christians without a God. I've never seen two groups out to recruit the world like these two circuses.
ReplyDeleteNo...Christians are all Atheists that stopped discarding mythologies one god before we did...
ReplyDeleteAnd to the earlier poster that said some leading scientists believe in creationism...wrong
No LEADING scientist working in a biological field promotes creation myths... There will always be a small percentage of science related professionals that manage to keep the bubble of mythology intact for themselves and still keep a job somewhere in the vast spectrum of science related careers. Even if you published a list of several hundred to a couple of thousand names of suspects...compare to the tens of millions of people working somewhere in the spectrum at any given moment. But numbers don't matter anyway...creationism or ID isn't what arises from analyzing the data from all of the convergent science fields that have led to evolution being the best explanation for what's been observed.
I don't care what xians believe or not believe, their god is just not good enough for me. To help their cause, why don't they start their own web site 'Christians Expose Crimes Against Humanity by Hypocritical Christians'. I am sure all the Atheists can help by supplying them with the names of all the people who hide behind the cloth, give history lessons abut the Spanish and German Inquisitions, all the Catholic pedophiles hiding behind their cross. The evangelicals against gays, who then turn out to be gay, then have the audacity to weep and wail, then plead for forgiveness ala Ted Haggart, then there is the likes of Benny Hinn, culminating millions off gullible xians. Hillsong, Westboro Baptist Church, so full of hate and bile. The only reason atheists are coming out, is the xians that are full of hate are infecting the laws of the land.
ReplyDeleteWow i am quite shocked (sarcasm) by how many responses this has acquired... But never the less... Believing that everything is somehow relevant to a non-existing being... is insane... like by definition of the word, and no alterations required.
ReplyDeleteNothing is linked to a being created by man long ago. OMG! did i just state something that shouldnt have had been said? oh well...
Point remains, this "God" of which is spoken of relentlessly... is nothing more than a fictitious bedtime story gone amok, and it's sickening that every single time i read rubbish like this... it's the same shit over and over.
Why? if this god is real... would something so stupid as "he is everything and in everyone" be repeated so much and him/her (being this fictitious god) allow such a retarded statement to go unchecked. like seriously... if i was a god i'd get pissed as such ignorance and possible lay a few low survival rated virus stains on the current population that believed that bull shit. Just to show how wrong they were.
BUT i digress, that got a little out of hand i must say. I'm just sick and tired of every christian and catholic dumb ass running around like they are "virgins forever" with their cunts flailing in the wind like its some sort of holy prized possession, wishing what they said was true.
Atheism is probably the closest possible thing we human's have to being "natural" and "normal" because religion has only fueled our desire for chaos and death, and im still waiting on proof that denies my claim just now. What has atheism done that has severely harmed the human race?
hmm... cant quite get an answer to that one. If you geniuses can get your heads out of your asses and give me 1 reason and answer to that question... i will give you 10-100 reasons and answers as to how religion has severely fucked over the human race. :)
Now i digress again, i'm becoming sickened by this horrible view your religious idiots are throwing around, its never been just online... oh fuck no, its EVERYWHERE! and even in the FUCKING STREETS! Keep your god damned failed attempt at rationalizing life and creation TO A FUCKING MINIMUM! i cant wait for the day Christianity becomes a joke. OH WAIT! it already is, i must have forgotten what year it is... see... the worst part of all this is, Judaism and Christianity are essentially the same thing, so is Catholicism and what ever fucking religion the Israelite have. its all the fucking same shit.
Until this is understood and accepted. Religion will continue to be a joke. Follow it within your own desires. but remember, just because we can point out flaws in your little dream world... doesn't mean its that much more real. cause its not.
FYI - When you die... your dead. ;D
I believe you need an awakening. I will keep yall in my prayers and I know its hard to see the truth and its easier to believe there is no Hell awaiting you but I promise there is. Funny thing the founder of the assembly of God church happened to be a athiest before he founded his church. I think it must of had a lot to do with having hands laid on him and speaking in tounges. Seriously yall have no time to waste every one of our hearts will stop beating one day and the truth will be revealed. Please take care and you have been warned. God will not change and He will judge you in the end. Which by the way will be sooner then you think. May God bless you and forgive you for you know not what you do.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all I will pray for yall. You blind people if there is no God how do you explain anything yeah sure science can figure things out right done to the cell or molecule they can even tell you how they work or why they just can't duplicate it. I promise as sure as the sky is blue God is real. Think about it if you live your life like there is no God and die then on the other side find out you where wrong there is no help at that point, yet if you live like there is a God and believe and die and there is nothing what have you wasted. Nothing. I can promise there is, I have seen rain stop in the name of Jesus also a woman healed of cancer Dr.s are still puzzled. As a matter of fact the founder of the assemblies of God church was a former athiest. While at a revival he had hands laid on him was filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tounges. Criticize it, condemn it, but remember if God is real then Hell is also and there are tons of people there who thought the same way as you. When is enough ,enough. Yall already got Jesus taken out of schools. Just wait till you are judged for that. Yet they stilly preach santa clause. Funny how satan does that makes everything seem beautiful. After all he is the best Lier there is. Well I pray God forgives you for you truly have no clue what you are doing. Criticize me, hate me, ridicule me it doesn't matter. Sucks to be wrong. When you feel anger that proves God exists and you truly are wrong.
ReplyDelete...Hahaha ^^^
ReplyDeleteThank you for your concern, but I think that if any benevolent, supreme being existed, they would judge people based on their actions in life rather than how many times they prayed for action. Call it a hunch, but I do not forsee my charitable, hard-working friends going to Hell because they decided to think for themselves =)
Interesting this is still going. As far as "live and let live"memes I disagree strongly. Why are you such an angry, bitter atheist I am often asked. It is quite simple actually-if no one spoke out against religion we would all be living in a theocracy. Look at all the politicians who came in on the backs of the Tea Baggers-just about every one is a Conservative Christian. As an atheist that doesn't alarm you and make you want to fight it? When you see that American "Family" groups are over in Africa trying to incite the natives against homosexuality you don't feel the need to speak out against that?
ReplyDeleteOk. Any being powerful enough to create a universe is certainly smart enough to see through your little logic thing. If the only reason you believe is because you are playing the odds, don't you think the creator of the universe is gonna notice? Wasn't there something Jesus said about lukewarm Christians being spit out?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, yeah I choose to believe that the creator of the universe is mature enough to not throw a fit at anyone who isn't in one particular fan club.
Interesting discussion (and brilliant response :D). My thoughts on the Faith versus Science debate:
ReplyDeleteI will state something that may be controversial, but still fairly obvious in my opinion:
It is impossible to gain meaningful information about the Universe using Faith.
Faith - by definition - has the property that there is no way to verify the information in question - that is why you "just have to believe in it".
It follows that for any belief that has basis in faith only, we have the "opposite" belief (think logical negation) that also has basis in faith only (proving or disproving this belief would do the opposite to the original belief). There is no reason to choose one over the other, as we have assumed that the first belief have basis in faith only, and this implies the same for its converse.
Say we use faith to arrive at a certain arbitrary conclusion, let us call it "X". Then we can - using faith - believe "not X", and there is no reason to prefer one conclusion to the other.
Note that the assumption that the first belief is completely faith-based is very important. However, given any belief, we can find the components of it that have basis in faith only, and then apply the argument.
On the other hand, http://www.blondenonbeliever.com/2011/05/wittiest-atheist-response-ever.html?showComment=1308940358288#c2978665203283636661 describes the scientific way more than well enough - and this is one reason why I self-describe as an atheist and not as an agnostic. I have no faith that there is no god; but I'm assuming it anyway, because there isn't a good reason (evidence) to do otherwise. I'm sticking with the null hypothesis. And normally, I wouldn't be talking about any of this, because it's actually something pretty unspectacular to state - however, as I live in a world where religion has an impact on my life (and that of other similarly unafflicted people), I feel compelled to do so.
Which brings me to the tolerance aspect of this debate:
I am tolerant of other people's beliefs, in the sense that my opinion is that the right to an imaginary friend should not be stripped from anyone.
However, I am intolerant of the use of explicit ignorance as the foundation of decisions that will affect other people (government decisions, for instance).
I think that this distinction is really important.
Also, it is useful to consciously know about, since so many religious people will go with the implicit assumption that it isn't there, which can be hard to debate against, if you're not aware of it.
Well, this is a wall of text already, I guess ;) So I'll leave it at that.
You might have got it wrong religion in a way to twist the bible to man's way of thinking that's where self thinking gets man. There are so many sects of religion its stupid, but following Jesus is not a religion its a fulfillment in life that Christians know is the only way to truly understand God. See a lot of so called scholars out there say the bible has a lot of contradictions but its not a book you can just sit done and read if that's the case you won't be able to read it. It is the Word of God and can only be read in the spirit.
ReplyDeleteJesus is the only way to truly understand the Word. He never lied not once and how many times have you felt a pull in your stomach not to do something when you where a child or young . Some don't even know about Jesus and still have been blessed and watched over and never knew it. No man is sinless none that is why before we can read the Word we must be born again. When you feel the Holy Spirit in you it will feel like fire consuming your body from the inside and you will not be able to deny Gods presence. If you have never been to a real Christian non demomination church how do you know your a athiest. You might just be a Christian that hasn't found Jesus yet.
Can any of yall tell me why you chose to be an athiest in the first place? Was it cool, did it make more sense, was it someone else, etc...? I want to just get a clue as to why? I'm not gonna try to convert anyone only God has the power to do that. I have met satanist, athiests alike and nobody can give me a honest answer. Just be honest with yourself then let me know.
ReplyDeleteatheistexperience.net/ check this out.
ReplyDeleteI suppose the intelligence scale will never really balance out cuz there R far 2 many religtards....This religtardism's gotta' wear off sometime eh??????????????? NOT IN LIGHT-YEARS MY BUD....Similar 2 cats n' smoking,just another thing DUMB-FUX just can't get enough of....
ReplyDeleteGOD BLESS YOU!
ReplyDeleteI love how all the so called athiests jump on the band wagon to try to sound cool. It seems that you know the truth can feel it deep down and know you are wrong but can't stop because you can't deal with the pressure of others making fun of you. So you go with the flow. Jesus is calling you! Answer His call. He gave His life because of your sin He's paid for it in full. Athiesm is just another form of religion. It's also another trick of Satan. Remember when your life is at an end and death is at your door. You will wake up in eternity and as its getting hotter and hotter just think you had only a little time to change. Every night when you go to bed then the next night doing the same you can't go back and start over. I really want you guys to see rue truth but, you have free will. But I have done my job.
ReplyDeleteLOL. I just want to be there when that atheist has that witty response for God on judgment day. Like can i please be standing right beside them?
ReplyDeleteMy only question for atheists is for something that doesn't exist and has no influence on your existence whatsoever, ya'll sure love dwelling on it. God is there whether you like it or not. Denying him isn't making him go away or else you'd stop being so consumed by what Christians believe. And once you know of God, you are accountable for rejecting him.
ReplyDeleteAtheists strengthen my faith more than anyone. Why so much hatred for the non existent?
I don't believe in the tooth fairy, so I don't talk about her or feels it's my duty to convert people who do believe in her. That's because a much stronger force of unseen evil in this world controls the atheist. The tooth fairy is not its concern.
The hatred for god comes from reading the bible
DeleteI kind of agree with the last poster in that atheists spend too much bitching to each other about God. However, the tooth fairy analogy doesn't quite fit. When was the last time that ardent followers of the tooth fairy tried to curtail gay rights or change other policy matters?
ReplyDelete